S3E6: Mentors Matter

Summary: This episode of College Conversations explores the vital role of mentorship in college success. Two student guests, Ethan and Maddie, join hosts Jeff Sherrod and Gregg Garner to share their experiences with the Institute's mentorship program, highlighting the challenges and rewards of intentional mentoring relationships. Despite initial apprehension and personality differences, both students ultimately found their mentors invaluable sources of support, guidance, and friendship. The episode also explains the program's structure, including mentor selection, matching processes, and strategies for addressing mismatches. The discussion emphasizes the importance of holistic student development, the benefits of formal mentorship programs over informal relationships, and the program's commitment to supporting students in finding the right mentor fit. Finally, the speakers offer practical advice for students seeking to maximize their mentorship experiences.

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- Gregg Garner, Jeff Sherrod, Madeline Sinnaeve, and Ethan Raykhonov

[00:00:05.51] - Jeff Sherrod

hey, everybody, and welcome back to College Conversations. My name is Jeff Sherrod. In this episode, Gregg and I are joined with a couple students and we're talking about mentorship during college. Now, if you've done any research on this matter, you would know that students finding and using mentors during college is one of the key indicators for success during the program. For us, we assign mentors to all of our traditional undergraduate students. And while this isn't organic, it's intentional. And so we're looking at some of the issues that sometimes students face, how they can overcome those to have very meaningful mentor mentee relationships and what that looks like even as they develop that kind of rapport that's necessary for effective mentorship programs. If you're interested in what intentional discipleship looks like during the college years, I really think you're going to appreciate this episode. As always, thanks for joining us on College Conversations. Hey guys, thanks for joining us today on College Conversations. We have a couple guests with us today, some student guests. I'm gonna have you guys go ahead and introduce yourselves.

[00:01:14.28] - Ethan Raykhonov

Hey, my name is Ethan. I'm a second year student here at the institute and I'm from Austin, Texas.

[00:01:19.04] - Jeff Sherrod

Awesome.

[00:01:19.87] - Maddie Sinnaeve

And my name is Maddie. I'm a third year student and I'm from Michigan.

[00:01:24.35] - Jeff Sherrod

Nice. Well excited you guys are here with us today. Talk about mentorship. So we're kind of doing a few things. We want to hear about your guys experience. I think one of the cooler things that we get to do here at the institute is a sign, a mentor to every traditional student that's here in the program. The grand majority of these mentors for us are graduates of the college. So you know, they've gone through it, they know what it means to do the entire program. They've stayed up late doing the sometimes very similar assignments that you guys have. So maybe even like talking about homework assignments. They can be like, I remember doing that one. I love those. You know, they very much understand your context. So talking about our situation, but also just talking about zooming out a little bit and talking about mentorships in general during these college years. It's, it's one of the things that I think is so important. And there's been more and more studies that have been done just to show that developing what is sometimes called mentorships or even called adult relationships. Yeah, adult relationships. You know, you guys are, it's a liminal, you guys are adults, but this is a liminal time right, where you're coming, you're young adults. So Maybe older adult relationships. And just shows how important that is. During the college years, you have someone who is some steps ahead of you in life that you can kind of go to and say, hey, what did you do? How did you do this? How did you navigate that? So let's start with maybe your guys experiences here in terms of mentors that you have. When you first heard that you would be getting a mentor, what did you think that that was gonna look like? Maddie, maybe I'll. I'll start with you here.

[00:02:51.52] - Maddie Sinnaeve

Yeah, yeah. When I first. When I first heard that I was gonna get a mentor, all I had to go off of was my mentor experience in high school and that look, she was like a junior in high school at the time. She basically would, like, send me scriptures like once a month. And that's what I considered to be a mentor is just like this older girl that I knew on my basketball team, and she would send me scriptures once a month. And she was a Christian, and I knew that. And so I was, like, interested at first when I was, like, gonna get a mentor here, because I was like, that is what I have experienced. And I mean, it didn't interfere with my life much, but it didn't really, like, help me very much, if I'm honest. So when I, like, first heard that, I was like, okay, this is going to be interesting. And I came in after two years of community college, so I was like, kind of used to, like, doing things a little bit on my own. So I was like, as long as, honestly, the mentor doesn't interfere with my life too much, that will be okay. Like, I'll be fine.

[00:03:54.90] - Ethan Raykhonov

But you're saying that when you're in high school, y'all were virtually the same age?

[00:03:59.37] - Maddie Sinnaeve

Yes.

[00:03:59.81] - Gregg Garner

Yeah.

[00:04:00.09] - Maddie Sinnaeve

So I was like a freshman in high school. She was a junior, and I think I asked her to mentor me. I don't really know why.

[00:04:07.06] - Jeff Sherrod

It wasn't like, something through your church?

[00:04:08.65] - Maddie Sinnaeve

No, no, we didn't go to the same church. I, like, met her on the basketball team and I was like, you're hungry for a mentor. Yeah. I just. I thought that that was going to be a good thing for me. And then it was like, fine. But it didn't. Yeah, like I said, it didn't, like, do much or, like, challenge me much or encourage me much, I guess. But I. I mean, she was a.

[00:04:31.12] - Gregg Garner

Junior in high school. Yeah, she's trying to figure it out too.

[00:04:36.81] - Maddie Sinnaeve

Yeah. Yeah. But I once I, like, kind of learned a little bit more about, like, what the program would be Here, like mentor, mentee. It did seem cool. Like, I. I was excited for to like, start meeting with my mentor and see what would that would look like.

[00:04:52.69] - Gregg Garner

What would it mean?

[00:04:53.30] - Maddie Sinnaeve

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:04:54.45] - Jeff Sherrod

What about for you, Ethan? What was your take on it?

[00:04:57.54] - Ethan Raykhonov

I think mine was a little bit different. I was not too excited at first, just to be frank. Like, I'm not one who's ever been, like, very great with heavy, authoritative figures in my life to. Just because I think my thought was, this person's gonna tell me what to do, tell me how to live. It's gonna, like, be on me constantly. And I just knowing myself, I'm like, we're going to get in a lot of arguments. Like, I'm going to get on him or her. I didn't know what it was like. And I never had, like, a mentorship experience outside of the institute. I'd had like, older guys in my life, like men in my life, like my dad, my grandparents, men at my church that I would ask questions to or like, seek advice or counsel when I. What I wanted to seek. It. It was never like they were checking on me and seeing how I was doing or, you know, asking my about my life. Like my dad would occasionally. But it was always me going out be like, I have a question. Can you help me answer it?

[00:05:49.43] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:05:50.38] - Ethan Raykhonov

And then coming to Institute, finding out that we were assigned an individual was definitely a new experience. And it's. It's become something I've really valued, especially over this, over the grand scope of just the time I've been able to spend with them. But definitely at the beginning, it was something that I was fairly hesitant towards and didn't really know what to expect. Yeah.

[00:06:12.48] - Jeff Sherrod

When you guys, because you mentioned, for us, we assign these mentors, we do, you know, try to base this off of. We have, like, surveys that go out and questionnaires, so we can kind of base them on personality and, you know, even in preference and interest. But you're meeting some of these people as a mentor, and then you're also in a mentor relationship and meeting them for the first time.

[00:06:31.36] - Ethan Raykhonov

Right.

[00:06:31.68] - Jeff Sherrod

You know, so was it always easy for you guys to connect with mentors? What's been some of the challenges, even in developing that relationship?

[00:06:40.58] - Ethan Raykhonov

I. As far as meeting with my mentor, are you asking, like, has it been easy to consistently meet with them?

[00:06:46.58] - Jeff Sherrod

No. Well, connect with them maybe, is what I'm looking for. Like, yeah.

[00:06:50.91] - Ethan Raykhonov

Yeah. I think with my mentor, definitely at the beginning it was a challenge just because I. I remember, like, when I first met him actually out here on these. On this, like, patio right here. Yeah, I remember, like, he introduced himself, like, hi, my name's Steve. And that was pretty much the extent of our conversation. He wasn't very, like, high energy, where I was, like, very much, like, higher G coming in, like, hi, my name is this da, da, da. And I remember telling you guys before we started, like, I did not think our relationship was gonna go well because I was like, we're so different. He's very quiet. Seemed like a fairly shy guy. And I was, like, very, very hesitant on that relationship. But now on this side of it, like, I just growing with him. I love him now. Like, I love reaching out to him. I'm always, like, invested with his kids, like, this family. Like, it really feels like I have, like, a new family even here. Like, even though my parents are, you know, all the way out in Knoxville, like, I have, like, an older, like, mother and father figure that I can go to and ask questions and even, like, be in a family dynamic within their home. And so I try to reach out as much as I can, and he does as well. But it's something I've definitely grown to, like, really appreciate and really love.

[00:08:05.61] - Gregg Garner

And, you know, he can drop bars, too. Do you know that?

[00:08:08.52] - Ethan Raykhonov

Really?

[00:08:09.00] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. You should get him to show you some of his stuff.

[00:08:13.49] - Ethan Raykhonov

I would love.

[00:08:14.37] - Gregg Garner

He is shy about it.

[00:08:15.81] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. But he's done.

[00:08:16.61] - Ethan Raykhonov

He must be. This is the first time you heard about it?

[00:08:18.00] - Jeff Sherrod

He's done it, like. Yeah, from the stage.

[00:08:19.64] - Maddie Sinnaeve

Well, that's.

[00:08:20.32] - Gregg Garner

No, he has.

[00:08:21.56] - Ethan Raykhonov

Yeah.

[00:08:21.93] - Gregg Garner

You got to get him to show you what's going on.

[00:08:24.61] - Ethan Raykhonov

I will.

[00:08:25.32] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. Steve will drop. You'll get somewhere.

[00:08:31.35] - Jeff Sherrod

That's awesome. What about you, Maddie? What's been process of connecting with a mentor?

[00:08:35.02] - Maddie Sinnaeve

Yeah, I feel like when I, like, I don't know, when I first met my mentor, I was pretty nervous. Just the idea of, like, going to meet an older woman to, like, have the. The whole precedent of, like, I'm going to, like, share my life and, like, my struggles or my joys with her felt kind of overwhelming to me because I feel like I am sort of shy at the beginning of all my relationships. And so the idea of, like, going over to her house and just, like, meeting her and was a little bit intimidating for me, but it was easy off the bat. Like, it did just feel like stepping into a family and a household that I knew I was welcome because we shared the same values. And especially because she was an alumni of the school, I knew we were gonna have things in common. And so while I was nervous at first, I was excited because I knew that she would be able to give me advice, like either directly on assignments that I was like, working on or like, just in general with like, student life things or managing my time. So I was excited because I knew that it was going to be something that I would really benefit from. And she was just amazing from the start. Like, we shared similar interests with sports and like, I don't know, we just were like, driven in that way. And so, like, it. We just clicked together and it was. It was really fun. So, yeah, it started by me. She invited me over for dinner with her family and we had tacos and they were really good.

[00:10:08.20] - Jeff Sherrod

Awesome.

[00:10:08.67] - Gregg Garner

Yeah.

[00:10:09.48] - Jeff Sherrod

Well, how do you guys. How do you guys typically use your mentor? Maybe you can say some things like, I'm going to them for these kind of things. Yeah. What kind of things you guys typically talk about across the board.

[00:10:21.24] - Ethan Raykhonov

I think for me, I don't. I might even say, I don't know if I use my mentor even enough. Just.

[00:10:28.98] - Gregg Garner

We've already said you're pretty independent guy.

[00:10:30.86] - Ethan Raykhonov

Yeah, a lot of ways. Yeah.

[00:10:34.17] - Gregg Garner

But which I think is a testimony to the freedom you have in a mentor mentee relationship, right?

[00:10:38.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:10:38.77] - Ethan Raykhonov

Yeah.

[00:10:39.05] - Gregg Garner

That it is not what you thought it would be. So just somebody and they're trying to control you, but, like, they're available to you, they're a resource to you.

[00:10:46.50] - Ethan Raykhonov

Yeah, I definitely. I think the way that I. That I have my relationship with Steve is he's very much like an older brother to me. Like me being the oldest of five boys, like, I never had older brother. I was always like the oldest. Always the one that was like, had to have like the first expectations or like the one who was like, always responsible for my younger brothers. So I never had like an older brother figure, like, look after me. And I think that's the way that I've began to use. Steve is like someone that I can go to for advice or that I can confide in or even just talk about the Bible with, like, I love just like going to his house and just like hashing out Bible scriptures or things like that. I've never really used them, like, in the. In the education for the school purposes, like about my papers and things like that. But I've really used him and utilized him as like a somebody that I want to aspire to be like. Like, because he's a few years older than I am, has a family, great wife, amazing kids. So that's someone like that I know is looking after me and that I can aspire that walk in his footsteps to become like.

[00:11:51.09] - Jeff Sherrod

So, yeah, that's awesome.

[00:11:54.37] - Maddie Sinnaeve

For me. I feel like I've used her in like, a wide variety of things. Like, I have used her to like, grade papers or like, look over something before I submit it. But probably the most like, common or consistent thing that I reach out to her for is like emotional, like encouragement or like challenge. I don't know. Yeah, support. So like, if I'm struggling in a week with like just feeling down or sad or something, I can reach out to her and I know she will like, pray for me and give me scripture that will build me up. And then also if I, like, am unsure and like, how to proceed in a situation, whether that's like a conflict with a housemate or like, whether or not to like pick up a shift or attend like a fellowship time, like, I know that I can reach out to her and she will give me like a level headed and clear bit of advice. And I've come to really appreciate that too because I. I don't have any sisters, which is kind of sweet that like, like Ethan said, I do feel like my mentor has kind of become an older sister to me. Like a much older sister to me. But like, I, yeah, I have appreciated somebody who I can talk with who like, can relate to my emotions because my brothers were never very good at doing that. So like, yeah, I feel like that is one of the most special parts of my relationship with my mentors. Just being able to like, bring my mess of emotions to her sometimes and she can just like, listen to them and not judge me for them, but also give me like scriptural biblical advice of like how to proceed and how to organize things and, and sometimes it's just like, yeah, that those things are all real. Yep, that's it. Yeah.

[00:13:41.41] - Ethan Raykhonov

And even, even the bounce off that, like, I know with my mentor, like, I'm not someone who's very emotional in some aspects, at least on the front. And I know with Steve, like, one of the things I really appreciate about him is he's really good at reading me. Like, I met with him yesterday and we were just, you know, just going over like a budget. And then afterward he was just like, you just seem down or you seem like you seem heavy, which I didn't think I was presenting on the face. I feel like I'm fairly good at like presenting a level headed face. But he was able to see through it. And then we talked about it, even just through what we Talked about with scripture. We talked about, like, what was going on in my life, and it really ended up helping in the moment. And now having, like, knowing, like, what you were saying, like, having somebody who can help me with my emotions and read me on the surface is something that's been very, very beneficial for me, that I've experienced a lot of life on this. Like, it's not the first time. He does that pretty regularly. Like, you kind of look at me and like, he kind of knows what's going on.

[00:14:39.20] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. You guys both said. I mean, I think you guys both have positive mentor relationships. If. Yeah, if you were talking to, let's say, a fellow student or someone starting out and they were having a hard time maybe clicking with someone, what kind of advice would. Would you guys give?

[00:14:53.36] - Maddie Sinnaeve

I mean, that. I actually have had two mentors, so that kind of happened with me. With my first mentor, we just struggled to click a little bit, but, like, my friends actually encouraged me to reach out to student life. There's a mentor coordinator. I don't think that's the exact title for her, but I reached out to her and I kind of just, like, let her know what was going on and, like, how we had been struggling to meet or, like, find times where our schedules aligned to meet. And she stepped in as, like, a middle person and talked with my mentor and helped us find, like, the times in our schedules where we could line up and meet. Whether that was like, coffee after class, like, prioritizing that time, not saying, like, I want to just, like, go home and nap or something. Like, she was like, these are times where you guys actually both are free. Yeah, you should meet and make that happen. And so what I did was, yeah, I reached out to the mentor, and.

[00:15:48.48] - Gregg Garner

Then the coordinator helped you to align your schedules.

[00:15:51.55] - Maddie Sinnaeve

Yes.

[00:15:51.96] - Gregg Garner

But then something still needed to happen where you changed mentor.

[00:15:54.87] - Maddie Sinnaeve

Yeah.

[00:15:55.20] - Gregg Garner

And that's something that in our program is not uncommon. And it concedes to the fact that we can assess up front and try and match personalities, among other things, and still discover that the kind of bond that we want to have between mentor mentee, it has not clicked, even though things have been tried. So then at that point, it is part of our effort to just say, okay, let's realign. Let's figure out who else could be available and how else could this work. And even getting the advice from what becomes the former mentor to make sure that we have a better fit. So our desire really is to not just make the system work for the sake of the system, but to ensure it serves the student. I think in Jesus's teaching, one of the incredibly revelatory statements he made was concerning the Sabbath. The Sabbath which became a formalized system of expectation that everybody now had these ways in which they understood it was supposed to happen and it could just be easily summed up and you're not supposed to work on it. Well, Jesus then ends up doing things that his critics interpret as work. So Jesus finally communicates that because the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath, the people that he serves are not subject to the lordship of the Sabbath, they're subject to the lordship of Christ. And in that case, the Sabbath should be designed to serve the people. And I think with any creation of an institutional type program, because this isn't informal. I think you guys know that. I think everybody likes an organic, informal experience. But sometimes you have to create some kind of system, even for someone to access the help that they need. So it is a system, but it's not a system designed to be served. So if it's not serving you in the way that we want it to, because Jesus is the Lord of any system, we've got to submit to the lordship of Christ to re evaluate how this system best serves the student. And within our system is the concession that your initial mentor may not be a good fit for you. Yeah, we might have to change that. So I just want to say that, that it's, it's not, it's not an uncommon thing, but neither is it a problem.

[00:18:16.34] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:18:16.71] - Gregg Garner

It's failure. Yeah, just what sometimes needs to happen.

[00:18:20.34] - Maddie Sinnaeve

Yeah, and I feel like I felt that too. Like, I felt supported in, like. Yeah, we understand that maybe it's, it's a little bit hard to connect right now. And I was, I also appreciated, like, they had me finish out the whole first year with that first mentor and like, encouraged me to like, like, actually apply myself to like, trying to reach out and make things work. Because like I said, coming into, I was like, I wasn't super sure how like it was going to look. And so I think I had a tendency to be like, I don't really know what this is supposed to look like, so I'm not going to try that hard my first year. And so I appreciated the council of, like, try these different things and try to make it work, like, actually put yourself into this program. And then they did assess it and they were like, yeah, we will make a change. And I did appreciate that because I felt like it was a system that was considering me and serving me and not just like, Sorry. You're gonna have to stick with your mentor. Even though it's not working, like, too bad.

[00:19:18.26] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah, yeah.

[00:19:18.78] - Maddie Sinnaeve

So I appreciate it.

[00:19:19.95] - Gregg Garner

Sometimes happens.

[00:19:20.71] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:19:21.23] - Gregg Garner

I'd like the government to make a few changes along those lines. Yeah, that happens.

[00:19:26.58] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:19:28.02] - Ethan Raykhonov

I did want to ask there y' all had said at the beginning, like, there's a. The ways in which you guys assign mentors. I guess I've never really known the process of, like, how you guys have assigned mentors to students. Would you guys mind, like, elaborating on that? Like, how, like, I got Steve or how, like, other people got their mentors?

[00:19:45.71] - Gregg Garner

So we have. At first, we have to create a pool of mentors, and the first place we go is to our alumni. And we ask alumni, which of you would be interested in performing this role as a mentor? They, of course, are going to say, what does it all entail? And so then we give them basically a job description that highlights what their responsibilities would be, including the expectations associated with that. This amount of meetings, this kind of contact. They even have meetings independent of you guys, where, I believe it's once a quarter, they come together, and the student life personnel will basically do, like, an internal form of professional development for them as mentors. But anyways, so they're there, they're learning more about it. And then we even let some mentors have more than one mentee. Yeah. But it depends on how well they've done with the stewardship of a mentee, because it is challenging. So then knowing our alumni, because just like you guys are going through courses, we're able to extrapolate data from your experience in a course. Like, you take your Psychology of Faith Development, and we learn a lot about you guys. Right. Because you're, like, telling your stories. And. Well, we've done that with our alumni. We know their stories, we know who they are. We know what they're about in other classes they took, like the MBTI or the Enneagram. And then we just have a relationship with them. So we know them, we know what they're capable of. Now, you guys coming in, you're the variables. We don't know you to the degree that we can. So usually you're like the admissions people that were working with you on the uptick. They're asking questions to you. Maybe you think you're just having a small piece of dialogue. They're taking notes right now. They have this interest like this, and they're hoping to make this happen. And they really love this about their church. They have a big family they have a small family, whatever it is. So now we have this data on you that we now just try to match up. And it's a prayerful, discerning effort. Remember, the Bible teaches us that one of the ways other people would know that we are even associated with God is that we demonstrate discernment. That that discernment is something people go. They're pretty discerning. But our discernment isn't magic. And I think sometimes some people think discernment is magic. Like, yeah, I discern your discernment is something that you can even teach people. But you do have to have some kind of data for it. Like when Steve is telling you he's discerning that you may be off a little bit, he's come to know you in such a way where he can see what it is about you that maybe someone else couldn't see, but he knows you, so he's got that. In the same way, we're doing our best to get to know some new people, having already known some people that we have a deep relationship with, and then we try and pair you up, and then we leave it up to whether or not it works out. And sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. I know that I know people who have had, like, three different mentors over the course of their education, and I think it might just be the personality of that one to just want a different mentor every year. So it kind of feels like, yeah. But I also know those who not only kept their mentor all the way until graduation, but they. They still use them in that capacity even though they're no longer in school. So it's a really cool, I think, opportunity for ministry for the alumni, because building up the body of Christ is an expectation that God has for us. But it's also, I think, an immense blessing for the student to have that kind of covering. When I was in college, there were two people I knew who were over. Or three people I knew who were over 20. One on a personal basis, maybe over 20. And that was my. My roommate, Robert Munoz, played tennis. And one of his tennis players, name was Tom Dubranski. Awesome name. And. And he had his wife, Barbara. Tom and Barbara, like, the best names ever. Yeah, but they were like 26, 27 years old. I felt like they were ancient, but they were, like the nicest, sweetest people. So he had them. And I remember feeling like, I wish I had a Tom and Barbara. And he goes, why don't you come to dinner with me? To their house? They invited me dinner I was like, what? So I went to their house, and they had, like, their own apartment. They were like young people with no kids. I'd never a couple without kids before. And I was like, this is a crazy experience. And Rob's talking to them like their friends. Like, can you be friends with someone who's 27? I am 17, 18, or whatever. It was just, like, pretty. Pretty interesting observation. The other guys I had were actually in the freshman dorm with me. There were two guys that initially I judged them as, like, losers. Like, why are you 27, 28 years old in my freshman dorm with you must be losers. But it turns out they were actually winners. Awesome guys with a lot of experience. They just wanted to go to learn the Bible and started a little later. And my exposure to them was really cool because I wanted them to be like older brothers to me. But I think not having the formality in there creates a need for a developed personality to be able to ask things. Because without the formal relationship between me and an older person, I now have to take the time to develop the rapport to get to the place where now I feel like I can open something up. Whereas if I commit myself to a program, like a mentorship program, I now know, okay, this is what I'm in. And I'm supposed to open up. I'm supposed to share things. And then I know that the person on the other side isn't going to think I'm weird for doing that. But that was the thing for me. Like, this one guy, I loved him so much, I lost all touch with him. His name is Derek Voss. He was such a sweet man and just was really caring and would listen. And I remember wanting to talk to him more about things, but also feeling like I'm going to seem weird. And I don't want to be weird doing this. I don't know. I don't want to be a bug to him in that way. But when you have a formalized program, it takes away some of those variables. You don't have to be timid now because, you know, actually, this is what it exists for. So I often tell students, hey, listen, because mentors are human beings like everybody else, and life circumstances, you know, can vacillate. They could have been really available when they signed up to do it. And then all of a sudden, life circumstance changes. Something happens with the sickness in the now they're unavailable. I do hope students feel empowered to not take it personal or not to think it's personal. When a mentor can't be available and to talk to the coordinator for mentorship and say, hey, listen, my mentor right now is just not available to me. And realize it's not a personal critique, it's just the fact. And that it might even help the mentor alleviate some of the maybe guilt they're accumulating. Because you guys know how it is when a life circumstance hits and you're not able to attend something you wanted to, you constantly feel like you're going to get to it and you have to catch up with the reality of your situation. But it could be eight weeks in, and eight weeks in a person, a young person's going through a lot. So I would hope that mentees feel empowered if they know there's an existing system of consideration or where in which, if someone's not meeting an expectation, that's not the end of the world. And it's not a negative critique. It doesn't dive into the character of the person. It could be just a very pragmatic issue that needs resolved. So that's why we have a formalized program and we're not just hoping it organically emerges.

[00:27:19.72] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:27:20.07] - Gregg Garner

Because with the formalized program, you have your covenants in the communication. I guess I'm speaking contractually, but you have these expectations that could be met so that you're not afraid to bring that in to the situation. So, like, I'm sure both of you, if you had. If you did have a down day and you're like, I just need to be in a safe place and I need no one to talk to me, you could probably call your mentor and say, hey, can I just be in, like, a back room in your house? Yeah, just be quiet in there. And it wouldn't be awkward to do that because, you know, that's the nature of relationship. Where if I tried to do that with Tom and Barb Dubranski, I think it would have been completely awkward. They'd been like, why is this kid, he came to dinner one time, so Nick, that'd be weird. Anyways, I think that maybe that helps your conceptualization of even why we systematize it, why we are collecting data on people. Because we're not trying to be creepy, we're trying to be helpful. And we're trying to say, let's put our students in the best situation we can initially. And if we have to work on it from there, hey, it's going to be okay.

[00:28:22.76] - Jeff Sherrod

Greg, for our context for mentors, what do you think that the mentor. What's their role in relation to, like, you know, they're not faculty, they're not staff.

[00:28:33.25] - Gregg Garner

Right.

[00:28:33.74] - Jeff Sherrod

They're not therapists. So if you're like, this is the space where they work the best, what do you think?

[00:28:42.05] - Gregg Garner

I think it's going to be highly personality driven depending on the person and their skill sets and the way they are. I think you should never expect a mentor to be anything other than who they are. It'd be weird for them to act outside of who they are. And I think it also gives a good model to the mentee to learn to be comfortable with who they are as well. Even if you're a little different, you'll find some similarities because that's the nature of developing a relationship. But you might still be different. But then you realize that that's okay and you even come to appreciate the nuances of personality. But I think I wouldn't box somebody into like, this is how you act as a mentor. Because take for example, what if the mentor is a professor? In that case they might be incredibly helpful to go deeper into the lecture that was in the class. What if they actually are a therapist, that's their actual job and then they want you a tool. I wouldn't be like, no, this isn't the venue for that. Right. Like, instead I would appreciate who they are and what they can contribute. But I think in the ideal, the things that these guys are talking about would be the programmatic goal. And that is to give them someone who's a little bit ahead of them, who can become a place of refuge, that they've developed a rapport that makes them comfortable so that they can share usually, I would imagine, the social, emotional elements of the college experience because it would be better to just go to the tutoring program that the institute offers or the faculty night to get help with your papers or to talk to a manager about your pro dev experience. That's probably the easiest thing to do there to get the most direct answers. But sometimes if you feel you have an awkward relationship with your manager and you don't know how to get to them, you could talk to the mentor who probably knows the manager and would say, hey, or is the manager. Yeah, it's also possible. But you can talk to them and they can give you advice and say, well, listen, you got to remember that this is their context day in, day out. And they take it very serious because they believe it to be a reflection of their relationship to God, because they want to do all things to the glory of God. So when you're entering into that world, they're in a mode of excellence. And they're, they're, the way they behave in that mode of excellence is, is probably different than their personal circles. I actually know them. This person's a jokester. You wouldn't believe it. They're so funny. But at work they're very professional. So don't, don't think that that means they're, they're trying to be mean or standoffish. So now the mentor's giving advice into the person. So I think social emotional is more the arena.

[00:31:23.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:31:23.96] - Gregg Garner

For how a mentor can help. And I, we do advise our mentors to be able to recognize when something has moved beyond the kind of conversational mentoring, scriptural advice mechanisms that they should be within to recognize. This person probably needs a professional in therapy to help them or a professional in identifying how to get better tools for their disability. Whatever it is that the person is going through, our mentors themselves should become and yeah should know the limitations on how it is they perform the service that they do. But yeah, it's not intended to be a catch. All this is the person that does everything for you in your life. This is a safe sounding board. I love that you guys use the big brother, big sister analogy because that is an amazing thing. Especially if you were the big brother, never had one or you had all brothers and never had a sister. That makes my heart feel very happy and very thankful to God that he could provide something like that because we need help in life. And I love how many of our mentee mentor relationships continue past graduation because that's just an awesome thing to find yourself. You've got your first kid and the thing won't go to sleep and you're having to make work work at the same time. Just cool to call somebody who you know going to judge you and say been there. And then you might even remember when they were there going, I remember when you lost your mind that one day.

[00:32:57.91] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:32:58.30] - Gregg Garner

Mentor's like, you were there. You get it. But here, here's some advice.

[00:33:02.19] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:33:02.63] - Gregg Garner

So I, I, I think it's pretty beautiful when it all works out.

[00:33:05.19] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. For, you know, I, I'm not on, I'm not part of the student life specifically. So when, yeah.

[00:33:12.10] - Gregg Garner

We wouldn't expect you to be Mr. Academic Meme.

[00:33:14.82] - Jeff Sherrod

But I am, I am interested. Like you know, for, we've done maybe earlier there was more informal measures for mentorship.

[00:33:22.19] - Gregg Garner

Yeah.

[00:33:22.95] - Jeff Sherrod

And then, you know, like you said, we've, we've formalized this. I'm interested in a couple things. Some things I hear when I talk to other College administrators who may be interested in mentorship, but they're like, you can't scale this at the, like, you know, one for one. It's too much inputs, you know, And I think for us, it is a lot of.

[00:33:40.30] - Gregg Garner

It's a lot of work, it's a.

[00:33:41.67] - Jeff Sherrod

Lot of human resources, it's a lot of administration. So maybe I'm just. Maybe my question is, when you were getting together, you know, you, student life, what was the thing where like, hey, this is. This is why we're going to invest this amount of.

[00:33:54.50] - Gregg Garner

I think, Jeff, you know, that everything that we do that becomes an initiative to the development of programming has to have a biblical point of departure. If it doesn't have that foundation, then predictably it's not going to withstand the challenges that come in the future. A storm hits, that house will fall. So if it's based upon having heard God's word and implementing it, then I believe there'll be some sustainability to it or yeah, there will be sustainability to it. So that being the case, when we recognize that students come to school and we're not just attending to their mind, but we're holistically attending to their development as a person, that spiritual formation is not just giving young people religion. Neither is it just filling their head with knowledge, but it is about getting them to the place where the person that worships God with all their heart, mind, soul and strength, like these different aspects that make us up, which we can talk about as like the intellectual, we can talk about as the interpersonal social or the interpersonal emotional, like there's so much to a person. So if they go through a collegiate program, I think what has to change is the landscape of considering what college is, especially when people have to house at that college. It'd be one thing if colleges were just the like, like how community colleges operate. You don't board there. You just go to classes. I why they would only attend to the academic aspect. But even accrediting agencies recognize you have to have some kind of student life aspect of things. But I think it just goes even deeper than how people often treat it, because even when you look at the allocation of funding in an institution, you'll see that so much of it goes to academics and so little of it goes to the social, emotional development of the young people, especially in. In their housing experience. So knowing that God is concerned with all that for us, that God is concerned with not just the development of our minds, but of our hearts and our soul and how we use our time, and then recognizing that we have on campus, students who come from Austin or Michigan and now get to integrate into community. How does that happen in such a way where they don't feel on. On the, on the fringe for too long? And one of the ways of doing that is to have someone hold their hand into it. So when you look at the, the. Whether you're reading the Torah or the proverbs or you're looking at the advice from the prophets, integration into community is always coupled with helping a person understand the values or the, you know, Hebrew scripture will use terms like law, but modernly we say the values of that community. But. And. And also the, The. The hope for what. What you could become if you're in that community. So if you have a community, that's just like saying, our aim here is to get you guys to be part of the intelligentsia. We want you credentialed, we want you to have your degree so you can put a suffix at the end of your name. That. That pushes you into the professional world. Like we should say that specifically.

[00:37:13.48] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. Right. But be upfront about it.

[00:37:15.23] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. But instead, when all of a sudden we're talking about some kind of holistic development for people that has the professional component in it, but also has like, a very strong ministerial effort to make room in this world for the poor and marginalized, we're. We're really talking about community development.

[00:37:32.76] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:37:33.32] - Gregg Garner

And because that's, that's our value and our aim, having a mentor in a position to just hold hands with the person to bring them in, say, hey, man, I got you. We're going to learn each other. You may not be able to learn the institution as fast. You may not be able to learn who these teachers are and who that president is. But like, we're going to commune, and I'm going to be your initial point of safety in this integration process, where I can even help you understand the values or I can bring clarity to things. So that is an incredibly important element, I think, even to things that your associates might care about, like retention.

[00:38:13.05] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:38:13.53] - Gregg Garner

Student retention is a big conversation. You want to retain a student, help them to understand what's happening in the environment that they're in, and then help them to understand how they can be a part of it and that they have a future in it. And I think, again, because a lot of schools are run by academics who maybe aren't making these kind of considerations, it gets overlooked or it gets underfunded. Because I'm telling you right now, your student life people, community life people are like, getting Pentecostal on me right now. Their hands are in the air. They're ready to go because they understand that the mental and social, emotional health of students, if it's being attended to even by a small touch point, like a mentor, mentee relationship, they're now more available in the classroom, and they're more available to learn the things that you're hoping to transfer them. So to me, there's a big conversation with a biblical backdrop on all of this, but this is definitely where this all came from. It wasn't because we're like, oh, that school over there has a mentor program. We should probably do that.

[00:39:17.96] - Jeff Sherrod

Right?

[00:39:18.59] - Gregg Garner

That's not how we roll it. No.

[00:39:20.11] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah, yeah, I think that's great. Maybe just one more question along these lines, and maybe you guys could help me with this one, too. What are ways that, like, you know, instead of just having the mentor training them, we talked about professional development. If you were thinking about, like, how can we get students to access or use their mentor in a better way, what would be some things that we.

[00:39:42.21] - Gregg Garner

Can do, like, Maddie, Ethan, give us something.

[00:39:45.94] - Ethan Raykhonov

Go for it.

[00:39:47.46] - Maddie Sinnaeve

I think that I would just say, like, for me, the. The beginning part is super important, like, the building of the relationship before. Like, I access them a whole lot with, like, my needs. So I think just, like, probably encouraging or actually, in, like, our welcome week this past year, we had, like, set dates where we were, like, every student is, like, going to dinner with their mentor. And I thought that was, like, really helpful. So maybe even more of those.

[00:40:16.94] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:40:17.38] - Gregg Garner

So we did that because of what we were hearing. You know, everything gets better the more that we all come together and share our experience and talk about it. Yeah. And when we found out that it became difficult in those first weeks for people to have initial points of contact, I mean, we were finding out that some mentors weren't even getting with their mentee for two, three weeks in on occasion. It wasn't. It wasn't the majority, but this minority of people that was happening to us, like, yikes, this isn't good for us. So this year, we decided to programmatically stick it into. And I think we're going to keep.

[00:40:49.03] - Maddie Sinnaeve

Doing that because I really like it.

[00:40:50.32] - Gregg Garner

It's a great point of departure, huh?

[00:40:51.84] - Maddie Sinnaeve

Yeah, it's helpful. Like, right when I, like, come back from the summer break or just, like, whatever that was, like. Like to, like, immediately, like, get together with her once again. It just was. It was really refreshing. And, like, you talked about, like, a safe point of contact to just, like, Be with her once again. So I really appreciated it.

[00:41:07.76] - Gregg Garner

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's excellent.

[00:41:10.25] - Ethan Raykhonov

Can you repeat the question?

[00:41:11.17] - Jeff Sherrod

So I'm looking like, you know, you know, you know what? You know. Now if you were to go back and be like, you know, telling either first year students or even your past self, what would you do better to be able to engage mentor relationships, you know, early on?

[00:41:25.88] - Ethan Raykhonov

Yeah, I think for me, like, it, it depends on the individual because there's some people who are like, very extroverted and so it's easy to just tell them, hey, just go talk to your mentor. At that point, it's like they understand what to do. All you do is kind of push them or, or kind of guide them in the right direction in order to have them just to start the conversation with their mentor. Now there's other folks who are fairly introverted and they can't. They have nervousness towards their mentors or they have just like no idea how to access them or anything like that. I think with them, I think the encouragement that I've, I've even given some of the guys in our house who have struggled with this is to just reaffirm that your mentor is here for you. That they, that because I think that at some level there's even like an aspect of fear that's around it, like, or like a nervousness because like, I've never had a mentor or like, I don't know, like, I think like, like you said, I gotta judge me or whatever the case is to definitely encourage the fact that our mentors are here for us, that they love us, that they know the Bible too. Like, you're not just going to talk to an individual who's been trained and developed by the world and that there is a biblical grounding with the individuals that are being assigned to you. And I know that even for me, like, if I were to go back to myself last year, I think I would immediately tell them, like, myself, open up as soon as possible, like right away. And because for me, it took a little while to develop the rapport to open up to my mentor. And it's great now, but it definitely did kind of hinder things at the beginning, made things a little bit awkward or I wasn't able to grow and develop in the ways that I wanted to, it just took longer. Especially last year, for me personally, it was a really challenging year. Like, everything was different. My entire life was uprooted. My family moved from the home that we'd always known in Austin. They moved to a new, brand new Place. I knew nobody out here. My entire vision for my whole future, for what I thought was going to happen was completely realigned. Like, I was losing friends. Like, it was just a whole disaster at the beginning of the year last year. And I did not utilize my mentor, but I really like, because that's, again, that's one of the things with me. Like, I would tell myself, like. Like, just go speak to him. Like, use your words. Go talk to them. Push yourself to do that. Because why I ended up doing was just kind of becoming, like, self interested or just kind of, like, real in self. And, like, I was very angry last year. Like, I was like somebody who was, like, very, very. It was going to be just kind of ticked off at the drop of a hat. And I think that if I would have gone and spoke to a mentor and talked about it earlier, it would have been a lot easier throughout the course of the whole year to not have those feelings. Because it got better towards the end of the year when I started talking to Mitzvah, when I started actually going to his house for dinners and engaging with his family. And he was able to help contextualize a lot of the feelings that I was feeling into the moment that I was in and not just feel like my world is falling apart. This is kind of a disaster. He was able to, like, really shape it and form it into a really positive way and a positive viewpoint to where even now, this year, I mean, I love being here and, you know, it's a lot. It's a significantly better experience than what it was last year. But it's because I went and I talked to my mentor.

[00:44:44.09] - Gregg Garner

So that's your advice? Get yourself out there and open up as soon as you can.

[00:44:47.82] - Ethan Raykhonov

Yeah.

[00:44:48.17] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:44:48.50] - Gregg Garner

Like it?

[00:44:48.94] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. That's great. Well, I appreciate this. Maybe I can just end on this question for you guys. What's been the most meaningful part of having a mentor so far? Far.

[00:44:59.88] - Maddie Sinnaeve

I would probably say just the. The times that I've been able to meet with her and the advice that she's given to me about going to the Lord and, like, about how I can approach him has really impacted me a lot about, like, how he is accessible to me to approach in prayer. And just that, like, everything I do in my day can have meaning if I, like, do it for the purpose of, like, serving the Lord and developing into a person who can be a competent laborer. So she's given me advice that has given me purpose.

[00:45:36.03] - Jeff Sherrod

That's awesome.

[00:45:36.63] - Maddie Sinnaeve

Yeah, I love that.

[00:45:37.42] - Jeff Sherrod

Thanks, Maddie.

[00:45:38.19] - Gregg Garner

Thanks, Manny.

[00:45:39.63] - Ethan Raykhonov

I think for me. It's just been able to have somebody who's like I said, is like an older brother and I know is looking out for me and is interested in my well being and that's been super meaningful for me just to know that someone's looking out for me and then I can reach out to them, them whenever. Yeah, has been really, really helpful. That's great.

[00:45:58.86] - Jeff Sherrod

That's great. Well, I appreciate you guys joining us today. College Conversations for you guys out there. Thanks for joining us again. Look forward to seeing you guys next week. Thanks for joining us today on College Conversations. Please like subscribe share this episode with others. If you guys have a comment, we would love to hear from you. If you want to learn more about our work, you can visit us at the Institute for God Edu. Until then, we'll see you guys next time.