Summary: Jeff Sherrod, Gregg Garner, and Laurie Kagay discuss the role of questions in a Christian community. As in, where do academic freedom, intellectual honesty, and how do they work in a Christian setting? Some people view questions as a negative thing regarding faith, but as professors, these guests highly favor asking questions. Think through what kinds of questions you answer, and how to get better at it.

Transcript - Tue, 10 Dec 2024 16:46:18 GMT

Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2024 16:46:18 GMT, Duration: [00:22:25.64]

[00:00:11.27] - Jeff Sherrod

Hey, everyone, and welcome back to College Conversations. My name is Jeff Sherrod. I am joined with Professor Gregg Garner, who is the president of the Institute for Global Outreach  Developments, and Mrs. Laurie  Kagay. All right, in today's episode of College Conversations, I want to talk about the role of questioning at Christian.

[00:00:29.32] - Gregg Garner

Questioning.

[00:00:29.98] - Jeff Sherrod

Questioning, yeah.

[00:00:31.16] - Laurie Kagay

I thought you   said questing.

[00:00:32.57] - Jeff Sherrod

We could talk about questing later. I'm also interested in questing. Get some RPG going. But, yeah, no questioning. I think that sometimes the. The process, or maybe just to say it broadly and we'll kind of get into it, what's the role of questioning? And I'll define. We'll talk about this in a little bit. At Christian Colleges, where does academic freedom, intellectual honesty, and how do they work in a Christian setting? I think that sometimes when people say in a Christian setting and even a church setting, you're going to go to college and you're going to learn how to question your faith, it's almost negative. And I think that as professors, we might say, well, I hope you question your faith. We're pumped about people that question your faith. Now, we're obviously going to nuance this. We're not going to be like, I hope you let go of everything. But I think that's why people think sometimes. We had this parent that was dropping off their student just a couple of years ago, and, you know, they, they asked this parent, asked me, and they're like, now is my child gonna be allowed to ask questions? Or you guys just tell them what to think? And I was like, I don't, you know, as like the professor. I'm like, well, you know, I gave a big guffaw. Right? I'm like, this is a college. No questions. Yeah.

[00:01:43.56] - Gregg Garner

I don't think they understand how insulting that is.

[00:01:45.37] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah, I know, I know. But I think it's one. You would not ask this question at a secular college. So there seems to be some inherent fear maybe at a religious institution where it's like, where does creed?

[00:01:58.29] - Laurie Kagay

And I think there's assumptions, like, if you're going to a secular college, then it is kind of by default, you're going to probably question everything or your faith is going to be put to the test.

[00:02:08.53] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:02:08.87] - Laurie Kagay

But then sometimes if they're going to a Christian college or a Bible college, it's more like they will tell you. The assumption seems to be people will tell you what to think.

[00:02:16.53] - Gregg Garner

But don't you think it's also because people see science and faith very different?

[00:02:23.27] - Laurie Kagay

Yes.

[00:02:23.65] - Gregg Garner

Like, you go to a secular school, you learn science or math. The answers are the answers. There's no. These are facts.

[00:02:31.91] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:02:32.15] - Gregg Garner

Is what's sold. Right.

[00:02:33.46] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. Where you're not really questioning some things.

[00:02:35.86] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. Where your faith is philosophical and theological and there's a lot to discuss. So then institutions who are going to educate you in faith, they must have come to conclusions of which now they will indoctrinate you on their specific group oriented conclusions in the same way you teach science and math. And so yeah, the difference between a secular and a religious institution carries with it certain unexamined weights that would be great for us in this cast to point out, to talk about.

[00:03:12.75] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. So I'm interested, I think along those lines.

[00:03:17.96] - Gregg Garner

First of all, I think anybody who's actually studied science and scientific theory can say people have held science as fact only to find out they were wrong time and time and time again. But also to have a good historical understanding of science is. Most of our scientific pioneers were Christians and part of the church at large. And they got there because it's been strong value of Christians to ask questions.

[00:03:44.63] - Jeff Sherrod

Yep.

[00:03:45.03] - Laurie Kagay

Right.

[00:03:45.65] - Gregg Garner

And not only to ask questions in general, but to ask questions that are often disruptive. The kind of questions that, that can take existing dominant institutions and turn them on their head. Whether you're, you're talking about the Reformation or going back to Jesus himself, you have people who are like, well, let me ask you this. And teaching the art of a question is a very important part of a biblical education.

[00:04:14.36] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:04:15.15] - Gregg Garner

Even Jesus in Luke 2 as a kid, he's noted for his ability to ask a question. And then as an adult, it's the interesting conversations he has with others who are either lawyers or themselves studied in the scripture, where he wants to ask them about how they read it. He wants to ask them what something means.

[00:04:37.18] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:04:37.89] - Gregg Garner

And it's their responsibility to make sense of that. So asking questions is a big part of a biblical education.

[00:04:47.61] - Jeff Sherrod

Right. I mean, if we're trying to be like Jesus, there's a lot of questions.

[00:04:50.61] - Gregg Garner

In my experience though, kids come here, they do not know how to ask questions because they went through whatever K through 12 they did. And there, that's where you should be asking. Is my kid allowed to ask a question? Because Most K through 12 experiences for kids like you talk to these kids and we're having to rehabilitate them away from thinking that if they ask a question they're stupid. That's like a real, they're like, if I ask a question, I'm going to look stupid. That's so crazy. But that's the feeling they have coming into our college. Another one is that by asking a question, you're. You're. You're not doing well to the professor. You're not showing respect because you should have understood what they said. And if you ask a question, not only may you risk looking dumb in front of other people, but you. You might also make the professor feel bad because they were. They're, you know, they're perfect in their delivery, of course, and everything else. So there's just, I think, a fundamental misunderstanding as to, I think, a third how knowledge is transferred in a collegiate institution.

[00:05:49.80] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. I think even another thing I've seen is that someone wants to ask a question, but they're like, maybe I'm outside the bounds of what I should question.

[00:05:57.01] - Gregg Garner

Yeah, yeah. And this one has. Qualify it. I don't know if this question is appropriate.

[00:06:00.81] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:06:01.25] - Gregg Garner

Or maybe this is a question for another time. But.

[00:06:04.93] - Jeff Sherrod

And, but I think this brings up a good point. It's like, you know, because in church education and whatever, early years, you know, that's not really the questioning time. That is the catechism. I mean, I took a class at my church. It was like, what we believe. And it wasn't a question, son. It was just like I was just being told, no, I don't have a problem with that necessarily. But, you know, couple that, and then when they. That doesn't really continue. Maybe you are allowed to ask some questions in high school. I don't really know. You know, maybe some questions in high school get to youth group. But even then, I think by then there's so much pressure to already know, you know, what you're supposed to know.

[00:06:38.60] - Gregg Garner

And people are kind of disinterested now. They just want to finish.

[00:06:41.26] - Jeff Sherrod

Right. Just finish. And then. So, yeah, you're right. We get to college, and this is a skill that it takes to be able to ask questions the right way, because we want students to explore and we want them to question. We want them to look at a text and be like, what is it?

[00:06:56.74] - Gregg Garner

And not in a rebellious manner.

[00:06:59.31] - Jeff Sherrod

That's the thing that annoys me is that someone's like, oh, that's. You must be against them. Like, now, this is scholarship.

[00:07:04.74] - Gregg Garner

Yeah, yeah. Because understanding is the goal.

[00:07:09.32] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:07:09.87] - Gregg Garner

And nobody is that clairvoyant of a communicator that their initial communique is always received with full understanding.

[00:07:24.54] - Laurie Kagay

Right.

[00:07:25.18] - Gregg Garner

Everybody is listening with their own filters and context. So the teacher is teaching, and you don't know what the student is hearing unless they ask a question.

[00:07:36.99] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:07:37.56] - Gregg Garner

Or make a Comment. I usually say, anybody got any questions or comments? Because sometimes people don't know how to ask questions, but they feel safer making a comment. Maybe the comment's going to be, this is a new, new thing for me to consider. Growing up, I always heard it was taught this way. So I haven't been able to think about it this way. That comment is an effective device now that that is going to ultimately culminate in people asking questions. So I think I would expand this to questions and comments. And I think this day, this generation is more comfortable with a comment than they are with questions. They feel questions are too much to point it. They're also sensitive. I think they don't want to look bad or dumb, but if they just make a comment, it's like something kind of neutral, but it's still revealing. Comments are revealing and telling us something. Yeah, but, yeah, the art of developing that question has to happen for these young people. But you as a teacher, what kind of teachers will we be if we were threatened by questions?

[00:08:35.54] - Jeff Sherrod

Right. Yeah, that's what we want everyone to know. We love your questions.

[00:08:39.29] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. Because I have been in situations, Sunday school and in college, where you ask a question and you know the most, the roughest answer is to get because I said, that's not helpful. And after that you sometimes will get people that will just tell you, well, this is the answer. And upon that we have to ask another question. But I think people are afraid to ask the second question. So, like, for example, if I, if I asked you where in the Bible Jesus says that he's God, and then you go to John 4 in his conversation with the Samaritan woman, and you show me that he says he's God there. And then, and then I look at as a student and I say, well, it sounds like he's more saying like he's like the prophet or the Messiah and he's talking about the worship of God and the Father, not that he's saying he's God. You're going to have more to explain to me because as a teacher you obviously know something I don't. And your answer to me didn't answer my question, so we need to go further. But it's the insecure or the teacher with a lack of knowledge, or the teacher who just falls back on the institution as a defender for them, where they may say, well, that's what we believe. And so you're either going to have to read that and believe it or not.

[00:10:02.53] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:10:02.89] - Gregg Garner

And that's where I think we run into problems yeah. And a student is never going to develop the kind of understanding where. Where they can confidently have conversations with people if they're not taught that asking as many questions as you want is completely appropriate.

[00:10:19.80] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. Have you ever been, like, as a professor, have you ever been offended by a question like, where you're like, sometimes.

[00:10:27.47] - Gregg Garner

People ask questions that aren't actually questions. They are ways of them asserting a position that usually they have a camp of thought with. So maybe the question would be like, why can't you just look at this text as a basic communication that Jesus is making a request as disciples for what kind of mentality they should have being a disciple? Why is it prerequisites?

[00:10:56.92] - Jeff Sherrod

Gotcha.

[00:10:58.46] - Gregg Garner

Really?

[00:10:59.16] - Laurie Kagay

Why can't you just.

[00:11:00.40] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:11:01.12] - Gregg Garner

In that moment they're saying, I think I have a better way of saying that. Why can't you say it the way that we all understand it should be said?

[00:11:07.04] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:11:07.39] - Laurie Kagay

Yeah.

[00:11:07.72] - Gregg Garner

That's not a question.

[00:11:08.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. And the person who's asking that probably isn't afraid of doing whatever they just did with their statement question. I think that sometimes, like, the misperception is that I might go to college and what if I end up doubting? Like, what if I, you know, I had this guy who lived on my floor when I was in college and by the end he was like, I don't think I believe in God anymore, but I'm not going to tell anybody that because they'll kick me out of school. And at the time I was like, yeah, don't tell anybody. But now as a professor, I'm like, I wish you would have told your professors. I think they really would have helped you and they could have been able to show some love. But maybe there's a perception is that we're so afraid of a question, even a question of doubt.

[00:11:47.84] - Gregg Garner

I think that's a scary conclusion for someone to have at a Bible college that they don't know if they believe in God anymore. Because we care so much that people develop their relationship with the Lord. Right. But that person has obviously come to this authentic moment where they're having to make this confession. But if they feel so bad letting people into that moment that they're in. Yeah. That doesn't seem to be doing any good.

[00:12:14.04] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:12:14.50] - Gregg Garner

But, you know, they probably. A lot of things they get hung up on are nothing new to the theological community. Nine times out of ten, it's probably theodicy.

[00:12:24.83] - Jeff Sherrod

Right, Right. That's probably what it is. Yep. The good things happening to bad people. Yeah. I think that's, I think that it's.

[00:12:32.75] - Gregg Garner

Why do bad things happen to good people?

[00:12:34.54] - Jeff Sherrod

Right. What about. What did I say?

[00:12:35.98] - Gregg Garner

Good things happen to bad people. That's the second part of it. But why do bad things happen to good people? Yeah, people.

[00:12:44.79] - Jeff Sherrod

What do you, what do you guys think Christian colleges can do to encourage this kind of questioning? Like, what can we do on our side to, uh, to make questioning scholarship part of the landscape? If, if there is, like, hey, there's certain things you're not supposed to question. And maybe I'm being too broad with this question, but I think it's great.

[00:13:03.77] - Gregg Garner

Questions don't have to lead to answers in an academic setting. A question guides research.

[00:13:09.37] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:13:10.09] - Gregg Garner

A question guides the inquiry. You want a good question because you don't want to waste your time because.

[00:13:14.21] - Laurie Kagay

It leads you somewhere.

[00:13:15.26] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. You don't want to waste your time in your inquiry. You want to actually feel that this question is worth something so that you can now do the work that now helps you to at least have a better way of understanding the question.

[00:13:31.16] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:13:31.50] - Gregg Garner

You may not get to a full answer, but you might have more to say about the question because you had time to investigate it, to look into it. Like, there's nobody that's going to claim they have the definitive answer to the Odyssey.

[00:13:44.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:13:44.84] - Gregg Garner

But there's a lot of people who do a lot of study on it and can, can help you feel different about the question as a result of what they've. They've learned and help you think different as a result doesn't mean they've answered the question. They. I, I don't, I don't, I don't know who could give a great answer why bad things happen to good people.

[00:14:06.64] - Jeff Sherrod

With like, and this is it.

[00:14:08.00] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. This is definitively it. I know people who will do it.

[00:14:11.95] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:14:12.23] - Gregg Garner

That's certainly out there, but it doesn't, it's not, it's not a sufficient answer when you hear them do it.

[00:14:18.30] - Jeff Sherrod

Right. Yeah. I think. Yeah. There's so much that we want Christian colleges to be. Right. We want, like, we, even for us, like, we have a process that we try to help students learn called the inductive study method that starts with observations. Yeah. Trying to get them to a way of studying the Bible. But one of the big steps early on is questions. Right. Like, list all your questions. And we try to say, this isn't the throwaway category. This is what's gonna drive your research later on. It's gonna drive your thesis for your paper. It' an important part of this process.

[00:14:48.75] - Gregg Garner

And they initially, they Often ask really funny questions, like questions that aren't related to anything significant or meaningful, but it's okay.

[00:14:58.53] - Jeff Sherrod

Right?

[00:14:58.87] - Gregg Garner

And they can't feel bad about it. Like, for example, we use our biblical interp class where we really go into the hermeneutic. We use the book of Hosea. And Hosea introduces to a first time Bible reader a lot of considerations, even geographical ones. And if this student would have asked the question, what or who is Memphis and Taphnes, they wouldn't have written their paper on these characters named Memphis and Tafnes who were having to interact and have feelings with God and Elsia. And you know, they didn't ask the questions because they didn't. They assumed the answers.

[00:15:43.22] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:15:43.75] - Gregg Garner

And now they're writing as though these names are related to characters rather than geographical locations. So the very basic questions are really where you need to start. And I think that can feel bad to a student. They're like, I should know this by now. Can tell you how many adult learners I've had to talk to where they can't even engage a class because they're completely hung up on. I have so many questions and I should have known this, right? It's like, no, dude, this is your time to ask.

[00:16:10.49] - Jeff Sherrod

They're like apologizing as they're asking, yeah, just ask. This is why we're here. Yeah, that's great.

[00:16:16.53] - Laurie Kagay

I think the flipped classroom model does help kind of foster some more comments and questions. Like, I've noticed they don't have to be as quick, right? They don't have to be as quick when you're, when you have a lecture and then you're like, any questions? You know, at the end, sometimes it's so hard to respond in the moment. But for us, our students are kind of ruminating on podcasts and videos and other material throughout the week. And then they come in for workshop. And to me, I've sensed a difference there because they've had more time to consider the things a certain kind of.

[00:16:47.59] - Jeff Sherrod

Student that maybe you wouldn't have heard.

[00:16:49.37] - Laurie Kagay

That's what I've seen. It's students that I maybe didn't know. Yeah, it really does diversity.

[00:16:53.83] - Gregg Garner

Students who participate through questions.

[00:16:55.65] - Laurie Kagay

Right. So I think that helps, you know, diversifying even the types of classes that you offer or the types of materials you make available and when. So that students maybe who aren't even as natural in their question asking, you know, just needed some more time to get there. And I think, I think the workshops I've been a part of have provided kind of more exercise, for more fun.

[00:17:19.17] - Gregg Garner

And I really believe that once a student recognizes that the development of their ability to ask a good question is crucial to the community, that they're a part of growth. Yeah, they. I think there's a sense of honor that comes with the dignity of being your own person, with your own perspective and your own background and everything. Because the question student A is going to ask about a biblical text, if student B and C were both honest about their perspective and the way they view the text, they would have different questions and different ways of seeing it. And the benefit for students A, B and C is that when their questions are voiced and if they are perspective takingly mature, they are going to grow and learn way more.

[00:18:08.41] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:18:08.73] - Gregg Garner

And it becomes this like really enhanced and exciting environment for learning. Because usually when, when you are like minded or you come from the same culture as someone, you see a code that like triggers a moment. I'm probably using terms that are too esoteric. Let me back up. You're getting a text to read or you're in a classroom and they give an example that now is going to ignite a series of questions. If you're from the same subculture, you're likely going to have heard and seen that in a very similar way. Especially if you share the subculture geographically, in terms of age, in terms of ethnicity. You're going to look at that thing and both y'all are going to see it the same way.

[00:18:52.56] - Laurie Kagay

Right.

[00:18:52.93] - Gregg Garner

Then you have another person who's maybe of another generation and from another geographic location with another ethnicity, they see that same thing, they're gonna have something else to say about it. So rather than feeling bad or any negativity related to your questions, you might come to the place where you realize the responsibility you have to form good ones.

[00:19:13.59] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:19:14.13] - Gregg Garner

Because they bless people, they help people.

[00:19:15.88] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. For everybody. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's great. I'm hoping that as students are listening to this one, whether you're a parent, you know, we're here to take your questions. If it's a sincere question. Right. Like, we're not offended. We're not offended by your questions. We want you to say them, your big questions, your small questions.

[00:19:31.51] - Gregg Garner

I know that we have parents who worked with us who, because we are academics and educated, they feel bad asking the questions because they maybe will unfortunately belittle themselves. I'm just a homeschool mom. I didn't get a formal education, but I love the Lord and I read about every day. Who am I to ask any kind of questions? But you're a child of God. That's who you are.

[00:19:58.22] - Laurie Kagay

That's who you are.

[00:19:58.81] - Gregg Garner

And you should ask your questions. And it really is helpful and exciting for us. But the intent in the ask really does make the difference. If you're intending to cause harm, those questions aren't helpful because you don't really care for answers.

[00:20:12.23] - Jeff Sherrod

Right, right.

[00:20:13.67] - Gregg Garner

And sometimes, maybe even most of the time, a lot of our answers are going to have variables included in them. And that's where we say things like, it just depends.

[00:20:25.71] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. You got to learn some comfortability with that. Yeah.

[00:20:28.15] - Gregg Garner

The Bible, Gosh, Learning the Bible helps you to stop seeing the world in black and white.

[00:20:34.18] - Laurie Kagay

That's right.

[00:20:35.75] - Gregg Garner

A world in black and white has questions and answers. A world in color has questions and more questions and answers that are actually questions that lead to more answers, for more questions. And it's an adventure, and it really maintains the integrity of God, who has still reserved a good amount of mystery for us to discover in the human experience.

[00:21:05.52] - Jeff Sherrod

Absolutely.

[00:21:06.38] - Gregg Garner

And as academics, we're trying to get your kids to be comfortable with a world in color.

[00:21:13.51] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:21:13.95] - Gregg Garner

And how they can. It just makes the world more beautiful.

[00:21:16.90] - Jeff Sherrod

It does.

[00:21:17.40] - Gregg Garner

You know, just remember the wizard of Oz, those first few scenes, all black and white. It was still great drama and fun. But you hit Oz and it's in color, you're like, whoa, this is different. Things are different. And I think I'm seeing with greater, greater clarity. Or just look at, like, your late 90s, early 2000 impact videos of your children versus your grandchildren. And that's kind of the difference between how reality really is. And we're excited to teach young people or any students to be comfortable with the question.

[00:21:54.16] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah, absolutely. Hey, guys, thanks so much for joining us today. As always, we appreciate it. It means the world to us when you guys share the episode with other people when you like and subscribe to it. We're excited to see you guys next time. Until then.